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Home: htmlArea 2: htmlArea 2 & 3 archive (read only): htmlArea v2.0:
htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see?


The htmlArea 2 & 3 editors have been discontinued.

We've made these forums available as a read-only reference and knowledge-base for people using or developing editors based on htmlArea 2 or 3.

Anyone who is interested in taking over version 2 or 3 is free to do so. All we ask is that you choose a new name that doesn't have "htmlarea" in it to avoid confusion with this site. We'll even give you a link in the directory to make it easier for people to find you. If you are developing or hosting an htmlArea based-editor under a new name, please submit it to our directory.

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Dave
Staff / Moderator


Dec 24, 2002, 2:47 AM

Post #1 of 35 (6954 views)
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htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? Can't Post

We're starting to think about htmlArea 3.0 and how it should look and work. The plan right now is it will be a complete rewrite and support Mozilla 1.3 as well as IE. This will mean you'll be able to use htmlarea on platforms that don't have IE5.5+ available (windows, unix, etc).

Some of the things we have in mind is to rewrite the code in an object oriented fashion and to use DOM methods instead of IE only extensions. The latter will be necessary to make it work with Mozilla as well as IE.

What features would you like to see. What do you like, what do you hate, what should we change, what should we improve... Let us know!

Dave Edis - Senior Developer
interactivetools.com


redspider
User

Dec 24, 2002, 4:22 AM

Post #2 of 35 (6935 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave,

It's great that htmlArea that is already fantastic at the moment is getting better every day and the development is still going on.

Here are some features that I think will be great:
  • Search function in HtmlArea
  • Table function with possibility to remove, add and edit (width/height) rows and columns
  • Undo/Redo function
  • Copy/paste function
  • Image import and upload (maybe like on http://www.engvall.nu/WYSIWYG7/example.html)
  • Link function with possibility to make an link to a anchor
  • Word-Filter to remove Word-tags
  • Spell checker
  • Form function with coupling to the some famous mail components (CDONTS, Jmail, ...)
  • Possiblity to easy upgrade. At this moment I most copy every own modification from everywhere in the script to the new version. I could be nice if there is an area where people can do there onw modification so they just must copy there own block of code into the new version. (but i think that's not easy or possible Frown)



Thanks for your great work

redspider
greetz

Redspider
Belgium
http://www.tielt.be


Morpheus
New User

Dec 26, 2002, 5:47 AM

Post #3 of 35 (6904 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

When you upload pictures, and then submit the form, the picture is resized to the optimal size in order to save space on the server.

Keep up with your good work!!!!

Morph


lvni900
User

Dec 27, 2002, 7:29 AM

Post #4 of 35 (6872 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be nice to have all the basic functions that are present in any basic html-editor (even frontpage-express). A few examples:

Buttons such as print, preview, cut, copy, paste and (if possible: insert local image). - Note: see my previous post, I've made some extensions that do the job.

A drop down for formatblock (heading1, heading2, ... etc) - also see my previous post.

Context-sensitive pop-up menus on selected objects: eg. when you click with the right-mousebutton on a table, a popup menu with among others 'properties' should appear.

A menu bar.

Floating toolbars (if possible, must be complex I presume!)

Get the focus back where the cursor came from on drop-down menus such as fonts.


psmithitools
New User

Dec 29, 2002, 8:12 PM

Post #5 of 35 (6800 views)
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Re: htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave,

First off, you and your team are doing an outstanding job, and to me represent everything that is good about the open source world. You are improving many people's understanding of these technologies and giving guys like ektron a run for their money!

I would love to see:
  • Better control over source code output, like case, quoting of attributes , etc.
  • The style sheet control be able to sense closed style tags like div.red to correctly write <div class="red">, or allow the author to specify how the tags are written
  • A richer link selector so that you can specify a site's absolute root, and have the person "browse" for links on the local file path ( would require server side addition so maybe not the best path)
  • Table row, cell, add/delete.


Thanks again

Pete Smith


mixmuis
User

Dec 30, 2002, 9:48 AM

Post #6 of 35 (6773 views)
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Re: [psmithitools] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

- Table changing background colors of a row/column


colin_witt
New User

Dec 30, 2002, 10:59 AM

Post #7 of 35 (6767 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Definitely, using W3C DOM methods instead of the current Microsoft-centric model is a good idea. I've been looking at this for the past few days and I think you could do almost everything you have now using DOM methods (some are harder than others). I agree with most of the other ideas posted already. Speel chek Wink and a form builder tool would be my top things.


lvni900
User

Dec 31, 2002, 11:44 AM

Post #8 of 35 (6730 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave, have a look at webeditpro: http://www.webedpro.com/demo/webedit.php

They have some nice features, the ideas may help you to make htmlarea a completer product.


lvni900
User

Jan 5, 2003, 3:31 PM

Post #9 of 35 (6650 views)
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Re: [lvni900] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Did some work to add guidelines for borders and some corrections to the formatblock (see elsewhere in this forum), these features would be nice in 3.0


chris2003
New User

Jan 7, 2003, 5:57 AM

Post #10 of 35 (6578 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would like to see the following problems fixed, they are essential to a good html editor:

-htmlarea must not replace relative urls with absolute ones

- the same thing goes for images

Below is a description of the problem I experience:

My site has the following structure:

www.sitename.com/htmlarea/editor.js (the jscript itself)
www.sitename.com/images-dir/image.gif (dir for all images)
www.sitename.com/system/add_a_page.php (in which the editor is showed)

If i open add_a_page.php it shows all images correctly (the editor embedded in the form, the relative links are correct), but if the editor is expanded to fullscreen the images show errors. The editor does replace the image-urls with non relative ones which are incorrect: www.sitename.com/htmlarea/images-dir/image.gif

I would be very pleased to see this corrected in future versions.


deveds2
Novice

Jan 8, 2003, 4:00 PM

Post #11 of 35 (6520 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would like to finally see an HTML editor that recognizes the ENTER key as ONE LINE instead of two.

There isn't a word processor on the planet that adds an extra line space when you press ENTER. Why do HTML editors do this? This is very bad for new users who - I assume - is a key target market for your product.



Thanks,

David Smith

http://www.deved.com


Dave
Staff / Moderator


Jan 8, 2003, 5:05 PM

Post #12 of 35 (6517 views)
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Re: [deveds2] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

The quick answer is that "that's the way microsoft made it work". : )

The longer answer is... The reason is because you can't anticipate the wrapping width with HTML. If the user hits enter in a place that looks right in the editor (next to the right hand side of the editor) it can look awful when the html page is a different width because the line breaks all show up in the wrong place. There's numbered and bulleted list options that let you do lists and you can press shift-enter for a single enter. Also, there's some posts in the forum on how to modify the editor so editor inserts a <br> tag.

My personal opinion is that this is the best behavior for the medium but I'm really curious to know what kind of content you are entering where you want to have single line breaks? Are you just worried users will hit enter twice and not realize what it did?

Dave Edis - Senior Developer
interactivetools.com


deveds2
Novice

Jan 8, 2003, 6:02 PM

Post #13 of 35 (6511 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

The list of uses for this type of feature - especially online - are endless.

To name a few:

- A signature in a comment

- A street address

- the header (layout header or masthead) of a web web page

- a sub-heading within content

- this list

- making a two-line layout of any kind

- typing code

- adding a copywrite below the author

- ANY two lines of text on the page you are reading where a "hard return" was required.

- ANY word processor or text application behaves this way.

- ANY E-mail application

- ANY TEXTAREA

- ANY typewriter

- WebTV Email apps

You state that the code can be modified to add "<BR>'s" instead. Great! In fact, you have done this in this forum. If you look at the source of this comment, there are TWO BR's after every line I've typed above. WHY?!?!

An additional note about wrapping: Why would you WANT to anticipate wrapping? I have dealt with these issues extensively in custom content editors such as this one. WHY do you want to limit the control of the content to your app rather than let the HTML wrap by itself? As a user, I would not want my content to unexpectedly wrap, therefore, I don't CARE how it wraps because that is the nature of HTML. Additionally, if I wanted to force a wrap at a particular point, I simply press ENTER (where then ONE BR is added and the display does as I expected it to). I'm interested to know what your perspective is on this.

This one point is a key factor in my client's descision to purchase your product. Please let me know.




(This post was edited by deveds2 on Jan 8, 2003, 6:10 PM)


deveds2
Novice

Jan 8, 2003, 6:18 PM

Post #14 of 35 (6507 views)
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Re: [deveds2] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, another reply to your comment regarding users accidentally pressing ENTER twice...

Um...no, I am in a position where my users are pressing enter once, and getting the behavior of pressing ENTER TWICE. It's a real problem for people who aren't normally used to software where Action <> Response.


dansimmo
New User

Jan 9, 2003, 3:50 PM

Post #15 of 35 (6457 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's already awesome but the main thing i'd like to see is to be able to specify fonts sizes by px rather than size 1, 2, 3 etc (unless it can already do this?)


lvni900
User

Jan 9, 2003, 3:52 PM

Post #16 of 35 (6457 views)
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Re: [deveds2] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you tried to shift-enter! In any text or html editor shift-enter only gives 1 break, and enter gives a new paragraph. Just like it is in htmlarea 2.03!


Dave
Staff / Moderator


Jan 9, 2003, 4:29 PM

Post #17 of 35 (6451 views)
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Re: [deveds2] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

>This one point is a key factor in my client's descision to purchase your product. Please let me know.

Well, as I said, that's the way microsoft made it. We're just working with the tools the browser makers give us.

There's code posted in the htmlArea forums on how to catch the enter keypress event and insert a <br> tag if that's what you want to do. Alternatively you can use shift-enter to insert a single <br>.

PS: The forum isn't our product and doesn't use htmlArea.

Dave Edis - Senior Developer
interactivetools.com


phil2
New User

Jan 9, 2003, 6:04 PM

Post #18 of 35 (6441 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Guys,

Great product. I think Mozilla support would be great. Also table editing features would be nice to. adding/deleting Rows & Columns, fixing column and row height and width too.

Thanks,

Phil


Lazy-GoD
New User

Jan 10, 2003, 7:51 AM

Post #19 of 35 (6422 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

tables with border "0" should not be invisible, perhaps a dotted line like in "normal" html-wysiwyg-editors.
don't know, if that is possible with jscript?!


redspider
User

Jan 10, 2003, 7:59 AM

Post #20 of 35 (6420 views)
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Re: [Lazy-GoD] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Lazy-GoD

See the posting from "lvni900" (http://www.interactivetools.com/forum/forum.cgi?post=5167)

He has write a function for 0 borders that is working great.




greetz

Redspider
Belgium
http://www.tielt.be


Prozit
Novice

Jan 10, 2003, 2:19 PM

Post #21 of 35 (6394 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Gang,

The line break issue is simple for those that know they can use shift/enter in order to create a <br> tag rather than a <p> tag. The problem resides in the fact that most editors (and Microsoft) follow proper W3C HTML standards which require a <P></P> tag set around every paragraph. So they set it to automatically create the opening and closing paragraph tags whenever you hit the enter key.

The challenge I think would be to find a way to add a break <br> button so users with less experience could use the button to create a break (even though we all know you can do the same thing by using Shift/Enter). We are using XS-Editor in one of our scripts at MERGINET.com in conjunction with a highly customized version of DBMan from Gossamer Threads (the creators of this bulletin board). Before we learned that a simple Shift/Enter combination could create the <br>, our programmer created a new button that inserted a <br> and dropped the cursor to a new line. We use it extensively in our articles because our style is to enter a sub-head in bold then <br> then the next few paragraphs of text. Here is an example of one of our articles:

http://www.merginet.com/emsnewsfiles/410_Barb_Chandler_20030801.shtml

Wish List:
We are hoping to replace XS-Editor with HTMLAREA when it is ready. Because of some extensive customization we will stick with XS for now but here is what we don't like about XS that maybe you can use in your development of v3.0.

Need more control of lists: Whenever we use the numbered or bulleted lists button in our editor it does a fine job but it adds <FONT> tags inside the <LI> tags so it looks like this: <LI><FONT>text</FONT></<LI>. This is proper formatting for HTML but some versions of Netscape then do not reduce the size of the number or bullet to the specified font size. This makes the bullets and numbers look larger than our text font size. We know this can be controlled with CSS but the editor does not stop using <FONT> tags when thee is a style sheet in place which causes even more havoc.

We would also like to control the space between a subhead and the list. Whenever there is a <UL> or <OL> tag HTML creates a space between the line and the first <LI> item. Again, this can be controlled inside of the <UL> or <OL> tag but unless you go to script view to do this manually you cannot control it. Look at the page example I have given above to see what I mean. We want those subheads over lists to be positioned like any other subhead in the article (like the standard subheads lower in that article).

We need to be able to change the <OL> type. I just added an article where the author used A. instead of 1. in many of his lists. There is no way to control this in our (or your) editor. We also have lists inside of lists. Any way to do that without going to source mode?

Need EM-Dash button: Our writers love to use EM-Dash in their writing. The HTML code for this is: &#151; In our editor we simply added a button that would insert this code. OOps. I see the new special characters addition. Works great so nix this wish item....

Image Upload: I know this has been beaten to death but we need it or this editor will never make it to the general population. Our editors (the real ones not the code) have no idea how to upload an image to the server then write the <img> tag to link it inside their articles. AND we don't want to teach them. That would be cause for even more confusion and frustration. We use the image upload feature in DBMan then added a drop down list in XS to insert some code (like: !IMAGE1!) in the body of the content that the whole script reads and places into the resulting body.n We have the ability to now insert captions, sidebars and up to four images using this type of feature.

Better Table handling: Our editor sucks when it comes to tables. You can insert a table in the body but you can't see it unless you go to source-view, add text to the <TD> areas then go back to HTML view and complete the entries. Then you have no control over the specifications of the table unless you go back to source-view. I see that this has been fixed in HTMLAREA and works great. I like the zero border dotted view feature. NOW can we find a way to edit teh table once it has been entered? Or am I missing something?

How about a spell checker?

To get around most of these challenges we have simply taught our human editors to format their Word documents as carefully as possible so when we cut and paste the content into XS it all formats properly. Numbered and bulleted lists are a problem with this because we haven't figured out how to format these in Word so they translate well in the XS Editor. Tables can also be tricky because Word adds so much junk code that doesn't all strip out when we paste it in (even though we wrote a special line of code to strip Word tags).

OK. That's it for now. I can see this becoming a complete content management tool some day and costing us $$Thousands ;-)

___________________________________________________
Richard Bilger, President (mailto:rbilger@eot.com)
Bilger Consulting, Inc.
phone: 218.547.1856 eFax: 240.376.8658 cell: 612.720.2522
___________________________________________________

(This post was edited by Prozit on Jan 10, 2003, 2:49 PM)


andrew
Novice

Jan 10, 2003, 4:44 PM

Post #22 of 35 (6378 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

This product is great as it is at present. Cool Without even going to 3.0, the usefulness of the product could be greatly enhanced by giving more example uses in your download. Example pages, such as open existing file (htm, txt, asp, inc) in the editor, post to an existing file, post to a new file, open a database field in the editor, post to a database, etc. You might even supply a sample Access DB. Consider giving asp, php, etc. examples. I would guess that I might not be the only business process person, having limited coding skills, that would love to use your tool, but needs a little more help.


jtpolk
New User

Jan 11, 2003, 3:50 AM

Post #23 of 35 (6359 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

I applaud your move to broader support of browsers. This may be especially important if Mozilla continues to increase in popularity, and if AOL finally goes with a Mozilla based browser (which seems likely).

The main thing that I would want is that the HTML be valid. Lowercase attributes and elements, quotes around attributes and the like. I would opt for the simplicity of HTML 4.01 as your standard.

I don't know how many times having valid HTML has vastly simplified fixing a problem in a web page, and how many countless hours have been wasted getting the HTML valid in order to find where the error lies.

Option of using CSS for formatting, things like font-weight, font-family, font-style and the like.

Option of having the HTML reformatted (line wrap) or not.

Some how setting an option that would only allow certain elements. Many sites I work on heavily use CSS it would be a good thing if I could set it so I, or a customer, could only use a limited number of elements, headings, simple tables, lists and markup like strong and em elements.

Ability of leaving PHP code untouched (or scripts or asp etc).

I am currently a heavy user of Mozilla's Composite, which is how I heard about htmlarea. Since I do most all of my work in a Linux environment, if something like that could be embeded into the page, I would be most happy.

With all these wishes, the most important things are valid html that doesn't look like a tangle, lightweight (in loading) and simplicity.

FYI: thanks for the current product. It stands out from the rest.

Jim Tom Polk
Webmaster
Camalott Communications


Dave
Staff / Moderator


Jan 14, 2003, 3:20 PM

Post #24 of 35 (6247 views)
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Re: [jtpolk] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks everybody for your feedback thus far! We should have an early beta of 3.0 in the next couple weeks. Our first priority is getting the existing features working on Mozilla and then adding things on.

If anyone has any other suggestions, comments, feedback, etc... Please post! : )

Dave Edis - Senior Developer
interactivetools.com


sgarrity
New User

Jan 27, 2003, 2:22 PM

Post #25 of 35 (6104 views)
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Re: [Dave] htmlarea 3.0 - what do you want to see? [In reply to] Can't Post

A Word-cleanre and standards compliant smart quotes and dashes would be nice (ala Textile).

That said - stick to your original development priciples - simple, fast, portable. Broader compatability will be great (Mozilla).

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